US Elections

[Peregrine]

Just curious what our European brothers think of our candidates for president. I don't like either of them and am a bit tired of having to choose the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to voting for president.

This is one of the few sites where we are allowed to talk politics and religion and I'd like a European slant on our election.

Of course, anyone is welcome to comment.

[TigerStyle]

I don't like either of them and am a bit tired of having to choose the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to voting for president.

http://www.bobbarr2008.com !

[LooseCannon]

... This is one of the few sites where we are allowed to talk politics and religion ...

Who does _not_ allow you and where?

My micro, insta feedback on the candidates:
McCain - true right wing, anti abortion, imperialist fundamentalist.
Obama - not McCain, hence, the lesser of two evils; does make some good noises about the rest of the world, but I'm sceptical.

I'd vote Obama.

[Psyborg]

Obama gets a lot more press over here. I think largely because of his youth, charisma, looks, race, etc. Kind of reminds me of how Americans seemed to perceive Tony Blair - impressed by his outward intelligence and articulacy.
That's kind of all that manages to float over the Atlantic. Having said that, if I actually read any newspapers I might know more.
I know Gordon Brown (our PM) and Boris Johnson (major of London) have publicly endorsed Obama.

On a completely personal note, have you noticed their thumbs? McCain's are always vertically upright when he talks, and seem disproportionately large and long compared to the rest of his hand. Obama's are bent, and are long and thin, but in proportion to his fingers, etc. His hands also tend to be open and encompassing, like he's holding an invisible ball. McCain's fingers are glued together in a flat wedge, with the edge of the hand (pinky finger side) on the table. It's a more aggressive kind of body language. I'm slightly offended by his grotesque thumbs, but Obama's thumbs are possibly over-delicate (dare I say it, feminine?). It all depends what you're looking for in a president. I also think McCain's arms are too short.

[Renegade Retard]

I'm registered as Republican simply because I'm somewhat conservative and the Republican candidates usually fall closer to my priorities, but I am by NO MEANS married to the Republican party. There are many things about the GOP that I don't like. You won't see me with any political bumper stickers or putting "Vote for XXX" signs in my yard. I vote for who I think is best, regardless of party. I've voted for Democratic nominees in the past, including a State Governor, a US Senator, and a US President (though I'm not naming names :P).

Having established that, this is one of those elections in which I would really prefer not to vote. I don't think either candidate is what the country needs right now. Both have qualities that I like, but both have many more traits that concern me.

Two of the biggest hot topics right now are the Economy and Health Care. Neither candidate properly addresses these two issues. Both party's plans for these two issues offer to apply band-aids to these two sore spots, but neither offers a solution to the root cause of these sore spots. The plans of both parties offer temporary fixes with risks of further long term damages.

In all honesty, there are more things I DON'T like about each candidate than what I DO like about both of them combined.

Oh, and I see big issues with both VP candidates.

I really wish there was a third option. I don't want to vote for either of these guys. Our right to vote is one of the greatest rights we have. Unfortunately, exercising that right is going to leave a bad taste in my mouth no matter what I choose to do.

[Loibisch]

I've voted for Democratic nominees in the past, including a [...] US President (though I'm not naming names :P).

We forgive you for not wanting another 4 years of Bush Jr. :P


As for the topic, I could probably write a lot about this, but I don't really have the time for that. So just some quick notes:

1) I personally think that Obama was the better choice over Hillary.
2) I also think that McCain was as decent a choice one could expect from the Republican party.
3) That being said, I mostly disagree with the line of "conservative" groups of politicians, even in my own country. They have an exceptional record of putting the oldest, most...well...conservative guys they can find in charge. With the result that while they might be veterans or have lots of experience, they lack in open mindedness and an ability to grasp the modern world. Case in point: McCain.
4) I truly, truly, truly believe that nominating that bitch Palin was the worst idea McCain ever had. Hockey-mom my ass, the affair about her abusing the power given to her by the state should be enough to back off her and nominate a new candidate. You want her in power, as the vice president (and god forbid something happened to 72-year old McCain: President) of the United States of America? Fuck no, she's one of the most incompetent persons I could imagine. Her mental capacity is about the same as Bush Jr's.
5) Obama has taken interesting positions on various fields of technology. I do not follow the actual health care and taxes issues too much. because as a non-US citizen they don't affect me. However, what is decided in terms of "terrorism prevention", the abolishment of personal rights, global electronic surveillance, intellectual property (RIAA, MPAA, software patents) and the like DO affect me, even as a non-US citizen. Things like having my electronic devices searched and possibly seized without reason at the US border if I ever plan to visit your country "scare" the hell out of me. And I truly believe, while there probably won't be any miracles here, that under Obama the US would see less draconian laws than they would under McCain.

Obama is trying to appear as a people person, with little or no ties to the industry and lobby groups. How much of that is true we will see if he is elected President. However, I'd rather be willing to take my chances with him, than to pick the guy that I absolutely expect to screw up in this regard.

Yes, this is a rather narrow minded view which focuses on a lot of topics which might be second-rate to American citizens, especially with the financial crisis and all. But these are the topics that will affect me, even if I do not live in the US.

As an added note:
While the political system in Germany features more than 2 parties (I know yours technically does, too), only the two largest political groups ever get to form the government. Usually they might pick one of the smaller parties which is ideologically close to them, so together they get over 50% of the seats in the Bundestag, which is needed to pass new laws and stuff. So usually, similar as in the US, we in Germany get to choose "the lesser of two evils".
Now the last election here in Germany had a "nice" touch. Both the two largest political groups lost so many votes, that even with the help of the smaller likeminded parties none of them effectively got over 50% enough to ensure a stable government. So what they did after a couple of weeks was...tadaa, form the government together. Yes, that#s right. The two biggest parties in Germany, which usually are opposed on every topic imaginable, are running this country right now. Together they have over two thirds of the seats in the Bundestag, so they can do whtever the fuck they like, including changing the constitution. Boy is that fun. Want an example?

VAT in Germany used to be at 16% before those two political parties took over together. Yeah I know, impressive, eh? It gets better. The more conservative of those two groups, the CDU, decided they'd need to increase VAT, else the government wouldn't have enough money. So they propsed raising VAT by 2%. The more worker friendly SPD however said, that this was insane and they wouldn't stand for it. One percent increase max!
So they vanished behind closed doors during the football world championship 2006 here in Germany, while everybody was busy cheering and celebrating, and they came back with a compromise decision...to increase the VAT to 19%. Yes, tht's right, the average of 2% and 1% is actually not 1.5%, it's 3%.
Since together they were the largest fraction in the Bundestag by far, there was no chance of any of the smaller parties overthrowing this decision. Thanks, CDU and SPD.

[Swedix]

Whether Democrat or Republican, I think you'll get a kick out of this!

A little boy goes to his dad and asks, 'What is Politics?'

Dad says, 'Well son, let me try to explain it this way:
I am the head of the family, so call me The President.
Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we call her the Government.
We are here to take care of your needs, so we will call you the People.
The nanny, we will consider her the Working Class.
And your baby brother, we will call him the Future.
Now think about that and see if it makes sense.'

So the little boy goes off to bed thinking about what Dad has said.

Later that night, he hears his baby brother crying, so he gets up to check on him.
He finds that the baby has severely soiled his diaper.
So the little boy goes to his parents' room and finds his mother asleep.
Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny's room. Finding the door locked, he peeks in the keyhole and sees his father in bed with the nanny.
He gives up and goes back to bed.

The next morning, the little boy say's to his father, 'Dad, I think I understand the concept of politics now.'

The father says, 'Good, son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is all about.'

The little boy replies, 'The President is screwing the Working Class while the Government is sound asleep. The People are being ignored and the Future is in deep shit.'

[LooseCannon]

...

On a completely personal note, have you noticed their thumbs? ....

Not sure if I can be arsed to keep reading the thread...

[TigerStyle]

McCain's fingers are glued together in a flat wedge, with the edge of the hand (pinky finger side) on the table. It's a more aggressive kind of body language. I'm slightly offended by his grotesque thumbs,

It's called loss of pronation, and supination movement from being in a crash landing, and not receiving adequate medical care while Vietnamese prison camp for over 5 years.

3) That being said, I mostly disagree with the line of "conservative" groups of politicians, even in my own country. They have an exceptional record of putting the oldest, most...well...conservative guys they can find in charge. With the result that while they might be veterans or have lots of experience, they lack in open mindedness and an ability to grasp the modern world. Case in point: McCain.

McCain is one of the furthest from the right republicans in the party. In fact he was denounced by every major right-wing radio talk show host in our country when he tried to work with Senator Kennedy (one of the furthest left-wingers), on immigration reform legislation a year and a half ago.

I agree with some of your stance on Palin, simply put, I think too many people are worried about McCain dying in office, and being stuck with her.

Some of my general thoughts here now. It doesn't matter which president is elected to be our countries leader at this point in time. We have too many politicians in the house, and senate in the business of ensuring re-election, rather than sticking their necks out to do the right thing. At least McCain has proven to not be one of those.

Obama has never done anything to back his claim on his ability to enact reform (change).

I am a proponent of less government. I am worried about America's direction towards socialism. It almost seems that the libertarian party will get my vote.

[Psyborg]

It's called loss of pronation, and supination movement from being in a crash landing, and not receiving adequate medical care while Vietnamese prison camp for over 5 years.

Ok. My ad hominem attack wasn't entirely serious in the first place. That would explain it though. But not the rest of his hand/body language, which I still find menacing.